It has now been about 3 years that I have seriously doubted Christianity, and a more accurate term maybe unbelief (I’m still not comfortable about specifically labeling myself). During this past year, my hope in regaining my Christian faith is slowly but steadily disappearing. I have delved into researching the resurrection, and left with the conclusion that there are just too many missing pieces to make belief in a supernatural entity possible. I then started delving into the arguments for the existence of God, and I’ve found these to be even less convincing. This next year I will be looking more into the details of the resurrection. Specifically the details of Jesus’ death and also look into the Shroud of Turin. I hope this isn’t risky and cause me further doubt. As always I’m open to suggestions.
This path towards unbelief has had many ups and downs. On the good days, I appreciate that this struggle has forced me to research things I most likely would not have done willingly. It has caused me to seriously reflect on my beliefs. On the bad days, I am sick of this struggle and want to just give up on searching. Luckily my bad days have so far been followed by a renewed strength to keep working on this.
Over these past 3 years my unbelief has affected relationships–some for the worse, but most for the better. Many of my relationships have grown deeper and stronger. I believe it is because we are now dealing with painful struggles and tough questions. Superficial niceties were replaced with deep questions and challenges, or a supportive embrace.
The bad part of relationships is that I often feel dishonest. I still regularly attend church and interact with Christians, however, I struggle with knowing who I should tell of my unbelief. I don’t really want to tell everyone my business, but I also don’t like putting on a show. Attending church causes other mixed feelings. On the one hand I feel like a black sheep, a stranger in a strange land, but on the other hand, it is one of the few things that is giving me strength to keep searching.
Another issue that is increasingly troubling me is how this will affect my kids. On the one hand I am committed to raising my kids with Christian beliefs, but at some point, when they are mature enough to understand, I need to be honest with them too. I am becoming anxious just thinking about all the implications.
Well here’s hoping for a better and more successful year in this struggle.
Hell Elle,
I’ve never really heard of Rob Bell before, but I’ve been listening to him since you posted the link above. I think he has some cool stuff to say and I’ve also seen the reasons why some people think he’s kind-of a heretic. To be honest, I really have no idea and I don’t really want to judge him either way.
I also hear ya about him providing hope to remain in this vein of belief. Sometimes it can be very difficult to remain a Christian in this crazy world. At times it just seems so ridiculous and at other times, it makes all the sense in the world.
I can tell you this, when I’m dying and I find that my consciousness does in fact continue to exist as my body goes through biological death, you can bet your sweet bejeebers that I’m going to be calling out for Jesus and no one else. Surely not Charles Darwin…..
Jason
I feel like such a dork. I just realized that I said “Hell Elle” in my post above. I meant to say “Hey Elle”. I’m so sorry………….
Also, Mark, that’s such a shame to hear that this guy has gravitated towards the fundamentalist dark-side. So, so disappointing… This anti-science, Christian stuff just makes me put my head down in complete embarrassment.
Jason
Ryan,
The origin of the universe is a tough problem, but I think one needs to be careful in just appealing to a god. Science has done a great job at explaining things that were once too complicated to be explained and just attributed to God’s work. I’d rather not get into an evolution debate here. But the complexity of life is not evidence of a god. I’m very familiar with this topic (I’ve got a Ph.D. in biology), and creationism and ID have been thoroughly debunked. TalkOrigns is a good resource.
Mark,
I too do not want to debate biology (especially with you—-a Ph.D. in biology)…. But, can I ask if it would be OK for me (and I suppose others) to ask stupid questions about ID? The reason I ask is because from the outside (someone who doesn’t truly understand biology and how life works), ID seems (at least) plausible. I’ve read “Finding Darwin’s God” by Ken Miller and I really liked it (a lot). But I’ve since read other stuff about problems with the fossil record, etc…. It just seems like there is still so much darned debate and I often wonder why the case is not just closed already. I also see and read about people like Simon Conway Morris and S.J. Gould who spoke against the various evolutionary explanations (Gould being an Atheist and Morris being a Christian—I think).
I think I’m very “small headed” when it comes to this stuff and I’d really like to potentially know more about the “truth”….. Help…….
Jason
Jason,
Unfortunately, many of these topics are very complicated, and the opposition uses that complication to their advantage. Some things one almost needs a Ph.D. in the specific evolutionary field to understand it. The same occurs with other complicated issues like global warming, macroeconomics, politics, and the sort.
A general rule of thumb is to be cautious of ideas that go against the expert view. I’m not saying experts are always right, but they are generally right (hence being experts). I’m glad you read Ken Miller’s book. That is a great starting point and he addresses many of the issues with ID and creationism. The stuff you read about problems with the fossil record, was it by a paleontologist? Was it by an expert in the field? In the scientific community there is no debate regarding evolution. Practically it is considered a fact. The only thing that is discussed and researched is how certain aspects of evolution occurred or are occurring. Gould was never against evolution. He just often get misquoted because of one his hypothesis (punctuated evolution). Morris was a die-hard creationist and frankly didn’t know the modern evolutionary field. Some of his talks that I’ve seen are embarrassing to watch.
The stuff that I read regarding the fossil record was probably not from a palentologist. But, in all honesty, I can’t really remember where it was from. I have read a tiny bit about natural selection and random mutation, but I’m sure you out-class me about 3000 to 1 when it comes to your knowledge regarding these subjects.
Ken Miller’s book was fascinating in that he is a professed Catholic and still believes that life could have started 100% naturalistically here on earth. I find this fascinating as all-get-out….. I remember as I read his book that I felt an almost overwhelming sense of “awe” at a God that could have done this, but after the buzz wore off, it leaves me seriously questioning again.
It does almost feel like the more we think we learn about physical reality, the less blatantly obvious God becomes. In Ken’s book, he said that one of his priests (when he was a kid) use to pick up a flower and make a statement like “but on one can ever explain the mystery behind a creation such as this”. In his mind (as a boy), I think he was in awe at remarks like this, but as he grew up and became a biologist, he discovered that there were naturalistic explanations to these “mysteries” of life.
But, in my own “layman’s mind”, this still baffles the living poop out of me. I just can’t even picture or truly appreciate a several hundred million year time period. But (once again) from my own “layman’s mind”, I see really simple life forms in the deep geologic layers and as we come up closer and closer to our time, the life forms seem to get increasingly more complex. So, this suggests to us (and to me) that life “evolved” from smaller/simpler forms to the more complex forms that we see today. But even then, I would expect to see literally millions of weird transitional forms. In fact, I would almost expect just about every fossil found to be some weird transitional form that ultimately would lead to the forms that we see today. Now, with that said, I really haven’t the slightest clue if that’s what scientists honestly see in the fossil record or not. The Christian propaganda engine would lead us to believe “not”……. But………
I know that Gould is the one that suggested punctuated equilibrium (at least I think he was the one) because they mostly see stasis in the fossil record, punctuated by blips of speciation. This (once again) is a 100% naturalistic explanation for the evolution of life and I’m good with that. So, why am I blabbing? Well, I don’t really know…. I just find this whole historical evolution thing as a simple response to how all of this crazy life came to be, still lacking in some way, but I just can’t articulate it……
Perhaps you can help fill in some of the blanks for me……. For example, are there any really good books for understanding the true realities of the fossil record, so that I don’t get these crazy/weird creationist/christianeese slants? Perhaps a good layman’s explanations for the true realities of the fossil record so that I can perhaps look at the evidence myself so that things will become clear (once and for all)?
Jason
The information I gave above is outside the realm of science. Science is “the study of the physical world” and therefore will never address the things outside of what you can see and touch. This includes the origins of the universe.
By only accepting information from the scientific community you have already determined your final belief. For the most part, scientists work to determine how we came to be without any intelligent being. They will connect dots that support this position, they will disregard any information or idea that goes against it. There is no room in their research for the notion of a higher power. Which I understand to a large extent since you cannot study what is not part of our physical reality. However, this makes it useless for determining if God exists or not.
Look at what Jason said above…
“this guy has gravitated towards the fundamentalist dark-side”
Because my thought process was outside the realm of the science, I’m considered a crack-pot automatically. Yet he offers no flaw in my logic. I’m not saying this isn’t one, but that isn’t where the argument is made. One thing I’ve learned from my research in religion, science, politics, and elsewhere is that there is constantly a complete lack of critical thinking. I personally don’t trust anybody. Churches, pastors, scientists, teachers, doctors, ect. I trust what I find to make logical sense. I usually find the most important part of an argument is what isn’t said. People like to leave out the parts of an argument that do not absolutely support their positions.
So I recommend you do not close off your mind to any side. Look at the facts yourself. Use strong critical thinking and logical analysis to sort through all the nonsense.
Let me give an example of poor critical thinking from two different beliefs.
1) Any easy one from the real “fundamentalists” who believe the earth is only thousands of years old. Where they get this logic from I have no clue.
2) I was given a link awhile back to a video where Ken Miller sought out to show a crowd how Intelligent Design was easy to debunk. He showed the commonly referenced flagellum and told them that because you could remove the tail of the flagellum and the head would still serve it’s purpose even without the tail for it’s movement. Too an applauding crowed he declares ID debunked. Not only does this barely scratch the surface of ID, it explains nothing. The point of the flagellum from Behe was in fact much more complex. But the crowd cheers him on even though he had said almost nothing of substance. Most people will believe and accept anything that supports their view.
I am not here to argue evolution. Why? Because in the discussion of Christianity and God I feel it does not matter. I’ve known many Christians who believe in evolution. That’s fine, I see nothing wrong with that. I believe an intelligent Christian has a better possibility of finding the truth of such subjects. Why? Because they don’t discount information simply because it points to the possibility that God exists. An atheist scientists must only focus on ways to explain God out of the equation. The Christian can believe in God and evolution at the same time.
So I guess you just have to decide if your going to follow a group that is dedicated to explaining God out of the equation. Or decide to use your brain and not factor things out simply because they don’t fit the narrative of the scientific community.
And to all…. if the logic of my example has flaws, please point them out. I am always willing to accept and eager to find the flaws of my own logic. Even if we want to or don’t want to believe in God, we should be willing to admit when we don’t have the answers. Neither side seems to want to do that.
Jason,
You are way to humble. It sounds like you have a pretty good base knowledge of the subject. Two books that are on my wish list are
Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters by Donald R. Prothero
Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A. Coyne
And remember that evolution doesn’t rule out Christianity. And if there is a God than he still made the whole universe which is still pretty awesome. Ken Miller I believe saw evolution as God’s way of giving creation free will; kind of like he did for man. I kind of like that view.
Ryan,
I 100% agree when you said, “I am not here to argue evolution. Why? Because in the discussion of Christianity and God I feel it does not matter.” The rest is less than 100% agreement, but I hope you’ll understand if I just leave it at that. Thanks.
Ryan,
I wasn’t talking about you in regards to the “dark side of fundamentalism”. I was referring to Mark’s comment above about Mike Licona: “Mike is going over to the dark (fundamentalist) side with his latest book on the evidence for God”. Also, I’ve read your comments about design in our universe and frankly, I agree. I think, especially with the discovery of dark energy and the cosmological constant that things look finely tuned indeed. I also agree that I too have seen a jump from methodological naturalism to philosophical naturalism when it comes to our origins and various astrophysicists and cosmologists (in terms of the universe).
Also, just to clarify how I understand and see the word “fundamentalism”…. It reminds me of some of the discussions that I’ve had with my wife’s family in recent years. In a conversation a couple years ago, I was told that it was my cross to bear to the world that I must believe in a “young earth”. Then, just a couple weeks ago, my salvation was questioned, because I was doubting the literal interpretation of the flood and the story of Noah. This is what I think about when I hear the word “fundamentalism” and I think it is absolutely DEADLY!
So, please (once again), don’t think that this comment was directed at you in any way shape or form…..
Jason
Mark,
Thanks for your comments above. I’ve heard it said and also know of Christians that say Evolution is 100% compatible with the faith. However, I know you’ve questioned that statement and that’s where I am now. I’m questioning that statement. It’s kind-a rocked my faith quite a bit…. I know we have people like Ken Miller and Francis Collins and I’ve read about Theistic Evolution and I’ve surfed the BioLogos forum. I’ve also read Collins book (The Language of God). I even sought out a PhD in biology on the net and wrote a personal letter to him, asking how he was able to reconcile his faith with evolution…. But, I still question this deeply.
So, my question to you is have you worked this out for yourself that Evolution is 100% compatible with the Christian faith? If you have worked this out, please let me know how you were able to do so.
Thanks,
Jason
Jason,
Don’t get me wrong, I think evolution complicates some Christian doctrine, but many of those doctrines are complicated anyways (like problem of evil, original sin, image of God, etc.). I don’t think they are completely incompatible (except if one is a literalist). I grew up most of my life holding to both evolution and Christianity, so I believe it is possible. To be honest, I don’t think the church has really wrestled with the implications and I don’t think the theologians are coming up to speed with reality. For me it was the churches denial and misrepresenting the data that played a role in my path toward unbelief. This also seems to be an American issue to, which is also closely tied to politics, so that may say something.
I’m praying for you, I’m a christian that experienced doubt but there are amazing things happening in my life that I cannot explain especially after going on a spiritual fast.If all else fails, lay everything down…your doubts, all you are thinking about and just go on a fast. Just seek God, not what the church, islam, science..etc tells you about God but the only possible GOD that truly exists. Just give God a chance that is devoid of YOU doing all the work, our minds and science can do alot of things but it cannot do everything. We all have a decision to make and it is easier to go one way nowadays.
Lulu,
How do you seek God at the same time not do anything? How does that work?